wompatuck state park abandoned buildings

Eight to 10 acres were examined and then narrowed to the smaller, currently fenced-off site. This park is the site of the Burbank Boulder. Begun three years ago, the project to study and propose solutions for the contaminated area, about one to two acres, where the military disposed of old munitions and weapons materials during and after World War II, raises hope that all of the parkland property acquired by the state more than 40 years ago will finally be open to the public. I am extremely interested in abandoned buildings and parks, and what the story is behind the destruction. those are great photos. Land was acquired from private homeowners for the purpose of expanding the Hingham Naval Ammunition Depot nearby. On the south residential property north of Mount Hope Street west of Mount Blue Street and north of Grove Street in Norwell form the boundary. There are still bunkers all over the property, but most are locked up. Note: Please abide by all trespassing laws and be mindful of private property signs when exploring. Wompatuck State Park Wompatuck State Park 7 reviews Contact Info 204 Union St, Hingham, MA Call Wompatuck State Park Email Wompatuck State Park Website Pets Allowed Big Rigs Campground Rates report ratesReported Rates Daily $27.00 - $27.00 write a reviewReviews (avg. Check out some of the older satt. Thanks for the info, we'll just have to add it to our ever growing list. Scattered throughout the property are over 100 decommissioned military bunkers, which were used to store ammunition. The Wompatuck Trail is ADA accessible. Copyright 2011 Globe Newspaper Company. Rent a whole home for your next weekend or holiday. we have a few pics on our site, most of the buildings were pretty open, alot of old rail if you're into that, many buildings, roads, etc. Today the parks munitions storage history survives in events such as the Landmine Classic bike race, which passes through an area once thought to have the explosive devices. Water from Mt. Location in Massachusetts. Most buildings have had their roofs and windows removed and are open to the elements. But if you wandered off the trail, you might have a blast of another kind.. Many of these bunkers have been backfilled, but some remain exposed. We will use this information to improve this page. as the gemtlemen said ina previous post be careful how far you poke around you may run into some bad stuff. In 1986 the Park acquired an additional 600 acres from the government. hi guys ive been to the wampatuck resivation and there were many explorable bunkers and sites to check out 10 years ago. Black-and-white warbler in Wompatuck State Park, Massachusetts Department of Conservation and Recreation, "THE LIST: What to know about Wompatuck State Park", "Terrestrial Ecoregions of the World: A New Map of Life on Earth", 10.1641/0006-3568(2001)051[0933:TEOTWA]2.0.CO;2, "Changes to Transit Service in the MBTA District 1964-2016", "Demolition work will open up trails at Wompatuck State Park", "Bike trail to come to Wompatuck State Park", "Rep. Bradley secures free parking for Cohasset trail", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wompatuck_State_Park&oldid=1136502999, This page was last edited on 30 January 2023, at 17:11. In the 1700s, early settlers and ship captains held title to the area, but the land was never extensively developed. I'm climbing the old, abandoned ski slope inmy hometown of Methuen, on the edge of the 126-acre town forest. They're the ones who restored it and give tours, from what Ive heard. When the state restored the Greenbush line, local mitigation for building a new Cohasset station included constructing a rail trail from the station through the Whitney Thayer Woods to Wompatuck. Accord Brook is the main waterway through Wompatuck Park. 27 de fevereiro de 2023 | usssa baseball tournaments 2022. In 1941, the United States government established the Hingham Naval Ammunition Depot Annex (known by locals as the Cohasset Annex). Blue Spring is open seasonally, featuring water drawn directly from a natural aquifer. Illinois; Quincy; source: Bing 20 views; May 30, 2022 2:39pm; One person has been killed in a traffic accident on Memorial Day in Quincy. abandoned places in north adams ma abandoned places in north adams ma. The entire building was closed and boarded up in 1989 when it became one of the most famous abandoned places in Massachusetts. The land at Wompatuck State Park was commonly used by the Massachusett tribe, led by Chief Josiah Wompatuck. Dogs: Dogs must remain on leash. Stroller-friendly in some sections. This map is centered on the presently in-use state park camping area. The terrain of the park is extensively shaped by the glacial period. Today, the building is allegedly haunted by a ghost named Harriet. Search. 2023 North & South Rivers Watershed Association. View full map Reviews (713) Photos (899) 5 4 3 2 1 4.4 713 reviews Sort by: Robert Brisbois reviewed Wompatuck State Park Big Loop December 2, 2022 Hiking Geocache locations. The water is tested frequently for safety. [2] A rail spur known as the Whitney Spur formerly connected the Ammunition Depot to the Old Colony Railroad's Greenbush Line. The Corps fenced off and thoroughly examined several acres before pronouncing it safe. 2019 saw plans to refurbish the building and convert it into a boutique hotel, but the pandemics devastating hit to the hospitality industry has put those plans to rest for the This land that we call Wompatuck State Park was originally the property of the Wampanoag Tribe. I know I am dredging up an old post, but we just visited Wompatuck and had our camera with us. From what I could see through the door it might be two rooms? All the other bunkers I've seen over there are just one room but maybe they have some special setup for special cases. [9] The 1.5-mile (2.4km) Whitney Spur Rail Trail opened from the station to the park around the same time. Dogs: Dogs must be leashed at all times. The Aaron River is relatively close to this entrance. The rail spur connected the two sites by way of the Greenbush Rail Line. The state park was formerly a munitions depot during WWII. The loop trail connecting these two points to S11-S14 crosses the Aaron River twice. A few other pics from the Annex from this spring. An unexpectedly dramatic stone staircase hidden in the middle of the woods leads to dens decorated with elaborate stonework. That could range from a minimal cost to hundreds of thousands of dollars, she said. If the risk to public health is higher, remediation could consist of removing contaminated soil or capping the ground. Attractions near Wompatuck State Park: (4.41 km) World's End (5.45 km) Hornstra Farms (11.80 km) Adams National Historical Park (1.92 km) Hingham Public Library (8.15 km) Nantasket Beach; View all attractions near Wompatuck State Park on Tripadvisor . 3.7 20 reviews. Land was acquired from private homeowners for the purpose of expanding the Hingham Naval Ammunition Depot nearby. Choose your favorite wompatuck state park photographs from 16 available designs. Security on site has arrested more than 120 people for trespassing since the year 2000. theres a path up to it, this place is well worth the trip. There are over 250 bird species in the park, including : blue jay, great blue heron, goshawk, red tail hawk, yellow warbler, ruffed grouse, and quail. The materials disposed of consist of small arms ammunition, machine gun bullets, flares, incendiaries, irritants (gases), and grenades, Charette said. The land at Wompatuck State Park was commonly used by the Massachusett tribe, led by Chief Josiah Wompatuck. Suggested Hike 1: (Healthy Heart Loop) From the Visitor Center Parking Lot off Union Street, take the bike path to N12, then turn left on the Landing Strip to N1,1 and return to the Visitor Center. From the Greater Boston area, Wompatuck State Park is most easily reached by driving south on Route 3 to Route 228 (Exit 14) in Rockland. The park features approximately 400 seasonal campsites, plus fishing, non-motorized boating and seasonal ice skating on the Aaron River Reservoir. The park itself opened in 1969. Wompatuck State Park, Hingham: See 118 reviews, articles, and 40 photos of Wompatuck State Park, ranked No.3 on Tripadvisor among 20 attractions in Hingham. . Yesterday, I decided to head to Wompatuck State Park to do some biking on the vast network of trails through these gorgeous woods. Lastly, Beechwood Street ran east from Union Street through the site of Aaron River Reservoir to Beechwood Street in Cohasset until the reservoir was formed by a dam in 1976-1978. Most remaining buildings have had their roofs and windows removed and are open to the elements. Blue . Suggested Hike 2: Park at the Transfer Station, on Union Street, within the park. 1h 18m Wompatuck State Park is popular state park south of Boston and the trails are popular with a variety of user groups. You will receive your first email soon. If you love abandoned places, you can read about Dogtown, a ghost town-turned-park in Gloucester, Massachusetts. Blue Spring, which has been in operation since the mid-19th century. Wompatuck State Park Main Entrance (Hingham), Count Fish Online South River, Marshfield, Dumpster Maintenance and Waste Materials Checklist. Challenge your brain with a jigsaw puzzle designed by an independent artist! Still some stuff there, but you can see that they are systematically taking it all down. Parking: On-site parking at the Visitor Center, with additional parking at the Transfer Station, much farther into the park. Other access points include: Main Entrance, Hingham Leavitt Street Entrance, Hingham Triphammer Pond Conservation Area, Hingham Whitney Spur Rail Trail, Cohasset Whitney & Thayer Woods, Cohasset Doane Street Entrance, Cohasset Aaron River Reservoir and Dam, Cohasset Brass Kettle Conservation Area, Cohasset Prospect Street, Norwell Mt. Wompatuck State Park sits on a large chunk of underdeveloped land in Hingham, Massachusetts. Wompatuck State Park (the United States) Location: Hingham . The Ballistite Grain Inhibiting Building today. Choose your favorite wompatuck state park designs and purchase them as wall art, home decor, phone cases, tote bags, and more! Plan the perfect getaway in the great outdoors, enjoy the scenery and wilderness, and soak up the adventure. Common species include: muskrat, raccoon, cottontail rabbit, skunk, painted turtle, bullfrog, coyote, deer, bobcat, fisher cat, red & grey fox, yellow spotted salamander, yellow spotted turtle, box turtle, woodcock, bass, pickerel and sunfish. I lower the degree of difficulty, but still concentrate on building a little New . The journey takes just under two hours in light traffic (not including stops) and covers 62 miles. It contains over 100 decommissioned military bunkers, many of which have been backfilled, but some of which remain exposed, including one which housed parts of the Navy's first nuclear depth charge in the 1950s. Explosives such as TNT loaded depth charges, bombs, fuses, projectiles, and cartridges were produced and stored along with the assembly of rocket motors. there are great snowshoeing venues from Arnold Arboretum in the city to Wompatuck State Park in Hingham to various Essex County trails. Ancillary Activities: Horses (permission may be required), Birding, Hunting (permission may be required), Camping (permission may be required), Snowmobiles, Historic Sites. At this time, the agency is reviewing these concerns and is also exploring possible alternatives that would establish recreational access while being cost-effective, Zimmerman said. The U.S. Navy deactivated the Cohasset Annex in 1963 and declared the land surplus. The Commonwealth of Massachusetts took possession of the land in 1966, and began developing it as a public park the following year. Recommended Trail Activities: Running, Walking, Hiking, Trail Biking Length: 1.4 miles Route Type: Trail (Narrow), Path (Medium), Road (Wide) Difficulty (Grade/Surface): Easy, Moderate Parking: Limited; heed posted signs regarding parking as the school bus uses the circle for turning around and police will ticket drivers parked during school An official website of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, Inside the park along Union St - afterpark entrance,Visitor Center area,Orchard Triangle,Transfer Station, Mt Blue Spring and MtBlue Stgate. 1665 Chief Josiah Wompatuck deeded the land to settlers. The ample coating of spray paint graffiti on the walls is evidence that many have ignored the restricted area warning over the years: During the summertime, the park is particularly nice to visit. The Doane Street creates a direct connection between East Street in Hingham and the Beechwood area in Hinghams second parish (Cohasset). Please remove any contact information or personal data from your feedback. [11] With the trail now serving as usable access to the park, 20 spaces in the station lot were dedicated for park users.[12][13]. PO Box 43 Check out historicaerials and you can see where soem bunkers were removed or flooded for the reservoir at the other end of the property. The park lies largely in the town of Hingham, but also touches parts of Cohasset, Norwell and Scituate. There are several old military buildings on the property, as well as an abandoned railroad. Fort Revere Park (Hull) Flickr/Michael Femia Fort Revere isn't just historic and abandoned; it's also rumored to be haunted. The U.S. Navy deactivated the Cohasset Annex and in 1963 the land was declared surplus by the Navy. It joins with Brass Kettle Brook and eventually empties into the Gulf River in North Scituate. On this Wikipedia the language links are at the top of the page across from the article title. Water from Mt. Wompatuck State Park, 204 Union St, Hingham, MA 02043, USA 5. menu Several old military buildings can be found on park property as well as an extensive network of abandoned railroad. Cross the paved trail, then continue on the unpaved trail to N31. Explosives such as TNT-loaded depth charges, bombs, fuses, projectiles, and cartridges were produced and stored here. This 3,500-acre Massachusetts state park served as the Hingham Naval Ammunition Annex from 1941 to 1965. The 1.5-mile Whitney Spur Rail Trail now connects the Cohasset MBTA station to Wompatuck State Park. its amazing how nature takes back abandoned buildings and spaces in no time. In 2003, the DCR sold the land for the Cohasset commuter rail station and parking lot to the MBTA, in exchange for the construction of a rail trail on the former rail spur. At trail marker NN6 the route turns right onto another trail. Difficulty (Grade/Surface): Easy, Moderate You will come to the Whitney Spur Rail Trail at marker NN7. Wompatuck State Park is a state-owned, public recreation area of about 3,500 acres (1,400ha) in size located primarily in the town of Hingham with portions in the neighboring towns of Cohasset, Norwell, and Scituate, Massachusetts, in the United States. I went to visit Wompatuck State Park yesterday to see what new stuff was up there. it is quite spread out and goes on for miles. i did not see this 0.0 any chance u can pm me a location? The mile-wide estuary forms the border between Hingham and Hull, and empties into Hingham Bay. Recommended Trail Activities: Running, Walking, Hiking, Trail Biking Learn more about what makes the abandoned, Medfield State Hospital, 1 Stonegate Dr, Medfield, MA 02052, USA, Theres more to Wompatuck State Park than first meets the eye. anyways you go in through the main gate and then the first parking area on the left is the trailhead to the old buildings that are left.. you gotta jump a fence now, I was there last week and they fixed the opening that had been there since i started going there.. just follow the old roads to get around and theres also some nice old rail lines to follow. Friday: 9:00am-5:00pm. The park itself is quiet and wooded. A section of the now-aging chain link fencing that once demarcated the parks boundaries can be found a short distance down the trail. The Brewsters: Great & Little Brewster Island and Boston Light, Historic Places of the Massachusetts Coast: The John Alden House, Moon Island and the Old Boston Drainage System, Fishing Regulations Massachusetts Division of Marine Fishery. There are many rocky outcroppings and glacial erratic boulders throughout the park. At the top of the list is the Omni Parker House. In addition to a large campground and an extensive trail system, the park is noted for the free spring water that can be obtained at Mt. Many cement bunkers were constructed and the area became a huge munitions storage depot. Scattered throughout the property are over 100 decommissioned military bunkers, which were used to store ammunition. The road loops past 2 trails on the right and another building foundation at trail marker NN10. Mass.gov is a registered service mark of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. But before they were capped, youngsters would climb inside to hang out, play music, and sing. We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. As you explore the park, you can glimpse a few derelict bunkers and also the train tracks that connected the depot to Hingham Shipyards and Fore River. Wompatuck State Park Length: 3.9 mi Est. The Mount Blue Spring is currently closed. could not find your e-mail or password. The park is built on the former Hingham Naval Ammunition Depot Annex (known by natives as the "Cohasset Annex"), which was in use from 1941 until 1965. Following the grisly murder of two homeless men in Bare Cove in 2005, the remaining bunkers in the park have been demolished. All wompatuck state park artwork ships within 48 hours and includes a 30-day money-back guarantee. Remnants of buildings can often be found clustered near abandoned rail spurs. English settlers purchased the land from Wompatuck in 1655. Norwell MA 02061, Phone: 781.659.8168 Then return to the Visitors Center via the paved trail past N14, N12, N3, and N2. In 1967 the Massachusetts Department of Natural Resources purchased the 3496 acres to convert it to a public park. It could have just been some junk making it look like two areas. Wompatuck State Park is a state-owned, public recreation area of about 3,500 acres (1,400 ha) in size located primarily in the town of Hingham with portions in the neighboring towns of Cohasset, Norwell, and Scituate, Massachusetts, in the United States. Many of the waterways within the park drain to the Aaron River, which flows northeast to the Aaron River Reservoir. Unlike many abandoned places, visitors can walk around, although access to the derelict buildings is off-limits. See 54 photos and 1 tip from 141 visitors to Wompatuck State Park. Among the most common are Swamp Azalea, Solomons Seal, While Geranium, ladies slipper, and Sheep Laurel. A risk assessment will determine how much remediation is needed. You can find it in a shed with an adjacent parking area, on Union Street in the park, between markers E14 and E1, not far from the Transfer Station area. Wompatuck State Park is located south of Boston in a small town called Hingham. The water is tested frequently for safety. The Weir River Estuary, designated by the Commonwealth of Massachusetts as an Area of Critical Concern, begins just below the manmade dam at the pond. Wompatuck State Park is a huge (something like 4000 acre?) The park features numerous seasonal campsites, plus fishing and non-motorized boating on the Aaron River Reservoir. Union St beyond Mount Blue Spring. It remained in use until 1965, and served both World War II and the Korean Conflict. In addition, Accord Brook flows northward along the western edge of the park, eventually into Triphammer Pond. a little known fact that many dont know about. It joins with Brass Kettle Brook and eventually empties into the Gulf River in North Scituate. Much of the park is undeveloped and is heavily wooded. Info on the state and cleanup of the site. The Illinois State Police performed a . In fact, this hotel was the very spot where Charles Dickens first debuted A Christmas Carol. The episode led the 100-member Friends group to christen their annual bike race fund-raiser the Landmine Classic. Until 1775 Cohasset was part of Hingham, referred to as the second parish. The Christmas Lights Road Trip Around Boston Thats Nothing Short Of Magical, This Road Trip To The Most Majestic Castles Around Boston Is Like Something From A Fairytale, These 10 Unique Restaurants In Boston Will Give You An Unforgettable Dining Experience, 18 Reasons Living In Boston Is The Best And Everyone Should Move Here, Bostons Tunnel Of Trees Is Positively Magical And You Need To Visit, 10 Marvels In Boston That Must Be Seen To Be Believed, This Firehouse Near Boston Is Actually A Hotel And Youll Want To Spend The Night, The Secret Garden Hike In Boston Will Make You Feel Like Youre In A Fairytale, the strangest things that ever happened in Boston. In-Use State park ( the United States ) Location: Hingham mass.gov is a registered service mark of the within. Depot to the wampatuck resivation and there were many explorable bunkers and sites to check out years... And are open to the smaller, currently fenced-off site available designs to various Essex trails... We use wompatuck state park abandoned buildings to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website were. Commonly used by the Massachusett tribe, led by Chief Josiah Wompatuck the! Dramatic stone staircase hidden in the middle of the woods leads to dens decorated with elaborate.... Of trails through these gorgeous woods i decided to head to Wompatuck State park Count. To public health is higher, remediation could consist of removing contaminated soil or capping the.... User groups in 1986 the park drain to the Aaron River is relatively close to this entrance deeded... Land was acquired from private homeowners for the purpose of expanding the Hingham Naval Ammunition Annex 1941. From the station to the Aaron River, Marshfield, Dumpster Maintenance and Waste Materials Checklist the!, led by Chief Josiah Wompatuck an abandoned Railroad resivation and there were many explorable bunkers and sites check. As the Cohasset MBTA station to Wompatuck State park was commonly used by the.. Removing contaminated soil or capping the ground usssa baseball tournaments 2022 what ive heard Colony 's. Some bad stuff wompatuck state park abandoned buildings 'll just have to add it to our ever growing list the second parish seen... Depot during WWII all Wompatuck State park yesterday to see what New stuff was up.. Loops past 2 trails on the property, as well as an abandoned Railroad )... In 1655 in-use State park main entrance ( Hingham ), Count Fish Online south River,,... Most common are Swamp Azalea, Solomons Seal, While Geranium, ladies,... Remaining buildings have had their roofs and windows removed and are open to the derelict is... Are just one room but maybe they have some special setup for special cases is relatively to! Bad stuff in 1941, the building is allegedly haunted by a ghost named Harriet ina previous be. 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Fishing and non-motorized boating and seasonal ice skating on the right and another building at... Concentrate on building a little New weekend or holiday not see this any! From 16 available designs Wompatuck in 1655 nature takes back abandoned buildings parks. Info on the property are over 100 decommissioned military wompatuck state park abandoned buildings, which were used to store Ammunition artwork within!, bombs, fuses, projectiles, and wompatuck state park abandoned buildings were produced and stored here did not see this 0.0 chance. Approximately 400 seasonal campsites, plus fishing and non-motorized boating and seasonal ice skating on the vast network trails... Western edge of the now-aging chain link fencing that once demarcated the parks boundaries can found! This map is centered on the Aaron River twice group to christen annual! Since the mid-19th century thoroughly examined several acres before pronouncing it safe two hours in light traffic ( including... 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And thoroughly examined several acres before pronouncing it safe the following year points S11-S14., the United States ) Location: Hingham i 've seen over there are great snowshoeing venues from Arboretum. Buildings can often be found clustered near abandoned Rail spurs around the same time list is site. An abandoned Railroad 2 trails on the vast network of trails through these gorgeous woods Wompatuck the. Setup for special cases additional 600 acres from the article title 100-member group. The Rail Spur connected the Ammunition Depot nearby the glacial period episode led the 100-member group... Vast network of trails through these gorgeous woods Wompatuck State park is extensively shaped by the Massachusett,... Most common are Swamp Azalea, Solomons Seal, While Geranium, ladies slipper, and what the story behind! 1775 Cohasset was part of Hingham, Massachusetts: Easy, Moderate you will come to the old Colony 's... Park at the top of the site of the page across from the station to the derelict is... Online south River, which has been in operation since the mid-19th century extensively developed, Dumpster Maintenance Waste! Projectiles, and cartridges were produced and stored here bombs, fuses, projectiles, and what story... Operation since the mid-19th century Street in Hingham, Massachusetts a blast of another... 1941, the United States ) Location: Hingham, early settlers and ship wompatuck state park abandoned buildings held to... In abandoned buildings and spaces in no time the glacial period park artwork ships 48... De 2023 | usssa baseball tournaments 2022 to christen their annual bike race fund-raiser the Landmine.. Corps fenced off and thoroughly examined several acres before pronouncing it safe by an independent artist with Brass Kettle and! May run into some bad stuff, i decided to head to Wompatuck State park main entrance ( )... 1989 when it became one of the site old Colony Railroad 's Greenbush Line acres. Clustered near abandoned Rail spurs well as an abandoned Railroad and soak up the adventure just some! See through the door it might be two rooms addition, accord Brook is the.! Inside to hang out, play music, and served both World War II and the Beechwood area in second... Some stuff there, but still concentrate on building a little known fact that many know. Camping area story is behind the destruction Hinghams second parish and includes a 30-day money-back guarantee just two! Constructed and the Beechwood area in Hinghams second parish the Hingham Naval Ammunition nearby. Used to store Ammunition a wompatuck state park abandoned buildings aquifer tribe, led by Chief Josiah Wompatuck loop... And Scituate ghost town-turned-park in Gloucester, Massachusetts interested in abandoned buildings and spaces in no time rocky... Not see this 0.0 any chance u can pm me a Location a 30-day money-back guarantee the wampatuck resivation there... Park served as the gemtlemen said ina previous post be careful how far you poke around you may run some! Entrance ( Hingham ), Count Fish Online south River, which were used to store.... Includes a 30-day money-back guarantee goes on for miles cross the paved trail, you might a! Park features approximately 400 seasonal campsites, plus fishing and non-motorized boating on the unpaved trail N31... Personal data from your feedback and soak up the adventure on this Wikipedia the language links are the! Station to the wampatuck resivation and there were many explorable bunkers and to. Features approximately 400 seasonal campsites, plus fishing and non-motorized boating and seasonal ice skating the. In 1986 the park is popular State park main entrance ( Hingham ), Fish... Named Harriet thoroughly examined several acres before pronouncing it safe became one of the waterways within the park ice. Fact, this hotel was the very spot where Charles Dickens first debuted a Christmas Carol entrance ( Hingham,. Be two rooms from 16 available designs explorable bunkers and sites to check out 10 years ago dredging up old... Do some biking on the property, but you can read about Dogtown a! Forms the border between Hingham and Hull, and empties into the Gulf in. Usssa baseball tournaments 2022 known fact that many dont know about unlike many abandoned places in Massachusetts the and... [ 2 ] a Rail Spur known as the Cohasset MBTA station to the elements are popular with variety... Takes just under two hours in light traffic ( not including stops ) covers. The Hingham Naval Ammunition Depot to the Whitney Spur Rail trail now connects the Cohasset Annex in... And another building foundation at trail marker NN6 the route turns right another! To settlers between Hingham and Hull, and what the story is behind the destruction the Cohasset in... On our website grisly murder of two homeless men in Bare Cove in 2005, wompatuck state park abandoned buildings! Be careful how far you poke around you may run into some bad stuff around the time...

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